Paul M. Hollister Collection, The Rakow Research Library of The Corning Museum of Glass
Transcribed by Bard Graduate Center
Title: Paul Hollister Interview with Steven Weinberg, January 13, 1981 (Rakow title: Steven Weinberg interview [sound recording] / with Paul Hollister, BIB ID: 168607).
Steven Weinberg, Interviewee
Paul Hollister, Interviewer
Location: Steven Weinberg’s studio, Providence, Rhode Island
Colleen Terrell, Transcriber
Barb Elam, Editor
Lauren Drapala, Summary
Duration: 34:23
Length: 19 pages

Note: This transcript is based upon an audiotaped recording that has been digitally converted. The recording is part of the Paul M. Hollister Collection at The Rakow Research Library at The Corning Museum of Glass, Corning, New York, and was transcribed at Bard Graduate Center, New York, New York, for the digital exhibition and archive Voices in Studio Glass History: Art and Craft, Maker and Place, and the Critical Writings and Photography of Paul Hollister. Usage requests for all or part of this transcript must be obtained from The Rakow Research Library at The Corning Museum of Glass. 

Paul Hollister often made audio recordings for research purposes in preparation for writing, including interviews with artists and curators, and lectures. The reader should bear in mind that transcriptions of these recordings reflect spoken, rather than written, prose. While every effort was made to be as accurate as possible, the sound quality of the recordings in the Paul Hollister Collection varies greatly. Transcripts have been edited for readability and occasionally condensed. They should serve as a best-effort guide to the original only and not be considered verbatim.

American artist Steven Weinberg (1954– ) studied ceramics at the New York State College of Ceramics at Alfred University, earning his BFA in 1976 before pursuing graduate work in glass under Dale Chihuly at the Rhode Island School of Design (RISD). Weinberg established a studio in Pawtucket, Rhode Island, after receiving his MFA from RISD in 1979. He developed innovative casting techniques and is known for his sculptural glass forms that play with space, geometry, and modularity.

Summary: During this interview with Paul Hollister, Steven Weinberg demonstrates and describes his “dowel” technique of casting glass within plaster-based molds and cutting pieces to embed in larger forms. In his discussion, he defines the interrelationship in his practice between idea formation and making. The conversation describes a variety of techniques used in Weinberg’s practice, with an emphasis on the importance of temperature control in a material’s quality.

Mentioned: acid polishing, casting, Cubism, sawing, digital kilns, Douglas Heller, Fernand Léger, paperweights, Pablo Picasso, sandblasting, Paul Stankard

Related asset: Paul Hollister. “Steven Weinberg’s Giesstechnik/Steven Weinberg’s Casting Technique: Something New Under the Sun.” Neues Glas, no. 4 (1981): 143-147.

[recording begins mid-sentence]

Steven Weinberg (SW): —work space. That’s real important to me. I had a professor, back when I first started school, we used to get real irked, cause everyone wanted to make the studio into a living room. Bring their coffee pots, and nothing—I mean, I have a coffee pot here, but big lounge chairs and it was also a place to hang out with your other schoolmates at the time, and he just reeled into the class one day and said, ‘The studio should be a factory.’ I’m not sure if at the time it ever sunk in, but then in retrospect, I look back and I agree with that wholeheartedly. This is my factory. It’s a place to work.

Paul Hollister (PH): It looks like it. It looks like it. Now the diamonds are impregnated in that little white rim?

SW: Yeah.

PH: It’s dust.

SW: Yeah. I’m not exactly sure—

PH: It’s not tactile to the hand.

SW: No. As a matter of fact, a curious aspect of this saw is that if it was running and it wasn’t splashing oil and you kept this going and you put your finger right against it and you wouldn’t cut it. On the other hand, it cuts through one of the hardest things around, glass. On the other hand, you take a wood saw and it would rip right through your fingers. Put it against this—put it against here, and you’d kill the blade.

PH: Funny.

SW: When I’m doing this to two squares, I gotta always be thinking of [inaudible]—in terms of it passing through the blade, also on how it’s torqued this way.

PH: Has to be vertical and horizontal.

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: How do you know that’s right?

SW: I don’t. The smaller piece—

PH: But doesn’t it slip a little, the wood? I mean, isn’t it like slicing bread with a—you can’t get a perfect slice. Doesn’t it shear off or wobble?

SW: The saw itself is pretty accurate, and once I torque this down, it really squishes it in there. Let’s see. I’m gonna—

PH: But not enough pressure to crack the glass.

SW: Oh, yeah, sometimes it is. I demolished a piece yesterday. Matter of fact it was this piece, one of these.

PH: Is that what that thing is there? What’s that—

SW: No.

PH: —looks like a break, there and there.

SW: No. These pieces that I’m working on now, they’re not talking, and I hope, when other people see them, they won’t read ’em wrong. They’re not talking about a real accuracy of dowels—36 dowels this way, 36—there are 216 separate units in this piece, all fused together. This is how—

PH: Oh, it’s built up from fusion. It isn’t one big block—

SW: No. We didn’t—no—

PH: —that’s been cut out?

SW: These are—okay, the forms themselves are cast into it by means of these.

PH: Yeah, but each one is only about this thick, or something, and then they’re fused together.

SW: Yup.

PH: Okay. It was like six waffles, and you take the six waffles out of the waffle pan, and you—fusing them together.

SW: No, no. There’re actually 216 of these things stacked—

PH: [inaudible] cube. Yup. Okay, and these are—what he says, ‘216 of these things,’ ‘these things’ are plaster cubes with a hole bored in them in all four directions. So they’re like dice with a number one on each one, only they’re hollow inside except for the outside plane. And there’re 216 of those.

SW: In this perfect [inaudible]

[studio sounds, as of tapping/hammering]

PH: And what is the plain glass top block? Is that the bottom? Or is that the top of the piece?

SW: Neither. It will be cut off also. And it will be a freestanding object.

PH: It’ll disappear.

SW: Yeah. It’ll be—

PH: Like that. Jungle gym.

SW: Atomic structures.

PH: Atomic jungle gyms.

SW: [laughs] Yes. [studio sounds, as of tapping/hammering] If I can get this right; I’ll show you how this thing works. [recording stops and starts] The exterior form itself will be a relatively perfect cube; I don’t like the word [inaudible]. When you’re talking about cubes and perfect—

PH: Well, I mean, eight inches—

SW: Yeah.

PH: —by eight inches.

SW: Yeah.

[clanging sound]

PH: more or less.

SW: There you go. You got it right this time. He’s got it right. Okay.

PH: Okay.

SW: Okay, so—

PH: Here we go.

SW: Now, we’re clamped in. [pause for six seconds] What I’m doing is, we’ll call them dowels, for no better term—

PH: The holes—

[hammering sounds in background]

SW: The holes. And we’re cutting—not quite halfway into them. So when I polish, there will be a lot more exposed surface, rather than, say, in this piece, where you’ll have tunnel vision, and these will be the only polished surfaces. I’m cutting into it, so you’ll be getting a cross-section of the horizontal at the same time.

PH: Well, that it’ll—

SW: It’ll look like—

PH: It’ll sink through.

SW: It’ll look like this side here.

PH: Yeah.

SW: Rather than having the dowels coming all the way out.

PH: Yeah.

SW: Now, the final—

PH: This is a reject?

SW: Oh, no, that’s one of the—

PH: It’s a slice.

SW: A slice. A beautiful—it’s almost woven.

PH: I see. And that’s gonna have the—uh-huh. It’s gonna have the squares—no, there aren’t any squares to knock out. It’s gonna have every other one knocked out? Or—?

SW: Nope. Take—

PH: I mean, what do you do with that now?

SW: That actually is a discard.

PH: Well, that’s what I mean.

SW: Yeah.

PH: That’s what’s left.

SW: That’s what’s left. That’s—

PH: That’s what’s left that reveals this. That would fit over this and make it all solid.

SW: No, this is another reject. There’s another side.

PH: Okay.

SW: This still has—

PH: But it’s positive and negative.

SW: Yes. This still has a lot of the remnants of [inaudible] I should clean out before I kind of gum up the saw. [knocking sounds in background] Even with my virtuous patience, it runs out once in a while.

PH: Plaster of Paris? Or is it a different kind of plaster?

SW: Well, it’s 50 percent potter’s plaster.

[sound of machinery being and turned on and running/humming in the background]

PH: Here we go.

SW: Here we go.

PH: Has it made contact yet? The blade?

SW: No. You’ll hear—

PH: Just start to “nyeeah” [word/sound in imitation of a saw blade cutting]

Unidentified Man (UM): 50 percent potter’s plaster and then 50 percent flint.

SW: Which is ground silica.

PH: Called?

SW: Supersil.

PH: Supersil, but you called it something else. Flinch, or—

SW: Flint.

PH: Flint. Okay.

SW: It—

PH: Just ground silica.

SW: Yeah. Now, I still am not sure why, but it was a formula given to me, and it’s a formula used by lots of people. [unidentified sounds in background] I’m not exactly sure why, but it allows the plaster to fire to a higher temperature. I think you—silica itself is a refractory material that’s unaffected by that lower temperature that I use, while plaster is—

PH: Silica melts at 1725 degrees Centigrade—

SW: Centigrade, yeah. Which is—

PH: —by itself, which is hotter than your—

SW: About twice as hot—

PH: Yeah.

SW: —as I get.

PH: So that’s why. Wow. Look at that one. This looks to me like an automobile battery. We’ve got one, two, three, nine tiny cubes within the main cube.

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: Isn’t that great.

SW: These, the small ones—

PH: You’re not gonna cut this up, are you?

SW: No. No, this is—

PH: That’s it.

SW: This is it, just needs to be polished.

PH: Oh. Isn’t that a honey. Wow.

SW: And these are complicated. These are freestanding forms. The half-inch dowels are freestanding outside, the three-quarter, and I’m trying to work—I have a technical problem, and that is, I’d like to have the same kind of form and [inaudible] just—one of these is a separate form—and cut, so that this is an object that moves within, that’s just entrapped, caged in. If you cut there, there, there, and there, like get a little hacksaw or something.

PH: Cause now it’s standing independent.

SW: It’s standing independent, but, okay—

PH: You’d rather have it covered over, is that it?

SW: No. I want it not only stand independent, but free to move, but be entrapped within—

PH: You mean actually free to move?

SW: Yeah.

PH: Where the hell is it gonna—how’s it gonna—

SW: It can’t go anywhere. I’d have—there’s a technical problem involved.

PH: You mean you shake it like a toy and it rattles?

SW: [laughs] It would rattle; it’d also crack to hell. But if you could—

PH: When it hit something.

SW: Yeah. The off-centered one, you don’t go all the way through.

PH: Yeah. And this is the remnants of plaster that we’re seeing down there?

SW: Yeah.

PH: It’s not plaster that is trapped in there for good; that washes out.

SW: Oh, yeah. Most of it’s been washed out already.

PH: And this? Is a place where it just—

SW: Yeah.

PH: —just the surface cracked.

SW: Yeah. That’s—

PH: In the mold.

SW: In the kiln. [laughs] Yeah, that’s all that is. I think I’d—

PH: That’s a lot of glass, though. That’s a good 50 pounds, isn’t it? Almost?

SW: This is about 40 pounds, yeah.

PH: Yeah. Now just to describe it, this is a cube about 12, 13 inches—

SW: [inaudible] square.

PH: Square.

SW: Four inches deep.

PH: Four inches deep, and with a—nine automobile batteries. In the corner, one’s set square with the cube, and the others askew. The center three, and—the center three, tic-tac-toe. It really is tic-tac-toe, isn’t it?

SW: I like to use small, cut-up pieces that I’ve been doing.

PH: Ah. That’s Route 95.

SW: This is the parking garage, I think.

PH: Yeah. Oh, that’s great. When I saw one recently, I don’t know, at Heller or somewhere—

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: —where you had two joined together, that confused me. It upset me a little bit. I felt it was so complete as one piece, and to make it two didn’t add anything to it, and I thought, ‘I wish he’d’—

SW: Yeah.

PH: I thought, ‘I wish he’d stay still for a—or stand still for a moment and stop going off on’— I’d just gotten adjusted to the others.

SW: Well I get confused by something. Maybe you can help me figure it out, okay? You ever [sighs]—it’s not knowing if you’re moving too fast or too slow, and you can’t—you can’t tell the difference?

PH: You can’t tell whether it’s one or the other, you mean?

SW: Yeah. Like in some ways I see the work, obviously from my point of view, and I see a lot of movement from piece to piece—at times; sometimes I feel myself stagnating, not at the moment at all. [sound of phone ringing in the background]


[sound as of tape being paused and then started again]

SW: —people who don’t know the work real well, and they come in, they see a certain—look at those shoes.

PH: Mm.

SW: [inaudible] but you don’t know the work real well, and come across a body of it and start talking about, maybe even redundance. And I see these people who come across almost as Renaissance people, kind of doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that, and [SW snaps fingers] sometimes I feel like I’m over-directed, tunnel-vision directed. Going down one path and not taking advantage of a lot of other possibilities. On the other hand, I think it’s real good to take one thing and work it as far as you can.

[. . . ]

PH: I think you are blessed in a sense, you specifically, in that the stuff is so heavy and clumsy and it requires so many methodical things like sitting in there for four days and going through here for three hours or whatever it is, that you can’t do more than a—you can’t progress more than a certain distance. I mean, I can just see—it’s like repairing an automobile, you’ve got the whole damn thing apart, you’ve got it up on the blocks, and you’re looking up at it. You can only put the pieces back. It takes a certain amount of time to do it.

UM: Mm-hmm.

PH: Before you can go on to redesign the fender. The car has to be reassembled as it was. And I think in that process, it’s slow enough, or I’m just guessing, but it’s slow enough so that you get an idea about a dowel hole, working with it, you sit and looking at it, and poking your finger in it, and thinking about ‘What if I did this?’ It’s slow enough so that it develops along with this massive thing that you’re doing—

UM: Mm-hmm.

PH: —at the right speed, in synchronization with it. In other words, your ideas are basically in sync with the process itself.

UM: Mm-hmm.

PH: With the speed of the process, with the cumbersomeness of it, or the massiveness of it. And I think that shows. When you got the two, the cloned thing there, I thought, ‘Gee, there’s so many more things he can do with the one, if he goes off into two, he’s getting off into some sort of architectural thing, which he doesn’t really have to do because all he really needs to do to have architecture is multiples of what he’s got already.’

SW: It’s hard not to feel the pressures of—

PH: I think that everybody’s got too goddamned many pressures on being ahead of each other, and I think that’s an inevitable part of this explosion.

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: I think it’s nationwide, or worldwide, and everybody wants to do something different. But some people have good ideas, and ideas with some power and weight behind them, and some people have crummy ideas, and they’re just doing kids’ stuff.

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: I think you’re in the first category. And I wouldn’t worry about it. I wouldn’t worry about it—

SW: Mm.

PH: —I really wouldn’t. I mean, if you take [Fernand] Léger as a painter—

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: I don’t know what you think of his paintings, but I’m coming to have more and more respect for them. Well, you see one and you feel, well, I’ve seen ’em all, and yet there’re no two Légers alike.

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: He really got the feeling of the cubism and the mechanical age, and he was able to lock it all in there together. A lot more successfully than [Pablo] Picasso, who’s dancing around with a parasol on the high wire one minute and throwing a beach ball the next, and doing something else. There’s some tremendous things Picasso did that nobody else did quite as well—

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: and an enormous collective, he’s like the yellow pages—

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: —for art. He’s got everything in there.

SW: On the other hand—

PH: But on the other hand, you take the impact of a person who’s got one idea and is pursuing it through like Léger, to think of something as close to this as I can think at the moment, or [Piet] Mondrian—

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: —say, and they’re pursuing that idea, and it’s a very painstaking thing. Sometimes they go off a little bit and try this, or something else. But it seems to me that you’re doing it at exactly the right speed. And I don’t think—I don’t ever get any feeling of repetition.

SW: I’m glad you don’t.

PH: But the only thing that is limiting your pieces is the logical thing, the thing that should limit them, and that’s their own framework.

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: They are their own frame, and that is the only limitation. You want to make a trapezoid, then you got other geometric problems. But you don’t have to make a trapezoid for five years. And why push it?

SW: Agreed. Thank you.

PH: Does that help any?

SW: That does help. Very reassuring.

PH: I may in a few minutes, looking at something think of it another way. Can I look at something over here?

SW: Sure.

[tape stops and restarts mid-sentence]

SW: —and sandblasted, so all the way down—the figure’s actually very similar to this here, but besides it being cut, cast into the glass, it can also be cut right through the glass at the same time. I’m real curious what the results will be.

PH: And—I see. Mm-hmm. How do we get to the bottom layer? Is it on the other side?

SW: Yeah.

PH: Isn’t that interesting. And they don’t really touch?

SW: Oh, they—it—

PH: Oh, they—

SW: —it does go all the way through.

PH: I see. My finger’s just sensing it now. It’s a double pocket.

SW: [inaudible]

PH: You could probably [laughs], this is ridiculous, but if you thought of this as like an entire lobby of a hotel, or the atrium, as they call them, have a huge cast glass atrium with a dining room, plan the whole thing out and then have it done in glass, what a magnum opus that would be.

SW: Sheew.

PH: Based on this. Well, but that’s coming, isn’t it? These are all basically—

SW: No, this piece—

PH: —models for a huge sculpture.

SW: This—

PH: Right?

SW: Yes and no. That’s something I mean, on the one hand I tell myself, or wouldn’t this be, on the other hand, once again, fuck it, this is the scale they are. This is—it would be wonderful to conceive of them—

PH: As a jungle gym [inaudible]—

SW: Yeah.

PH: —cubes.

[pause for six seconds. Sound of running machinery in the background]

SW: Now this—

PH: Oh, that’s a nice one. It just comes out of the water.

[pause for six seconds. Sound of running machinery in the background]

SW: This is somewhat to placate Mr. Doug Heller. He likes my exploding pieces, so I really went to the nth degree of exploding with these.

PH: I think it’d be nice to leave those on, and not grind ‘em down.

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: And let people say, ‘Gee, he’s got cracks in them.’ And then, ‘Hey, no, they’re not cracks,’ or—

SW: You know something—

PH: [inaudible] extrusions.

SW: —this piece may have [inaudible]. I’m bringing this over to an acid polisher, instead of mechanically polishing it, which would have to—

PH: Flatten it. Mm.

SW: It’s gonna be very curious to see what the results are.

PH: Leaving this in.

SW: Yeah.

PH: Was that my idea or your idea?

SW: To leave this in is your idea.

PH: But acid polish the rest.

SW: —was the idea—just to get also—there’s so many intricate spots with the plaster and silica, I just can’t get em out; I’m having a lot of trouble with them. So I’m seeing if the acid could get em out. But, if it does polish the sides, which I’m hoping—

PH: What is the acid supposed to get out in here? You mean this plaster stuck in there?

SW: Yeah. There’s some that’s little—

PH: Oh, you mean, but that would drain it out anyway, wouldn’t it? Or—?

SW: The acid—

PH: Can you get in there with a little tool? Or—

SW: We’ve been trying that, and I mean, we’ve already put, oh, I’d say four or five hours in cleaning this piece, and it’s gonna take another—

PH: How about can’t you blow it out?

SW: Tried to. That’s what that tube there is compressed air. It’s just—

PH: If you wet it, could you blow it out if it was wet?

SW: Done that too. That’s why we’re gonna try the acid. Cause the acid will dissolve it out.

PH: And what will the acid do to the rest of the glass? Will it shine it?

SW: Yeah.

PH: Which you don’t want?

SW: No, I do want it.

PH: You want to have it all shiny inside so it looks like a crystal, internal crystal.

SW: I’m really not sure what it’s gonna look like—

PH: But you’ll see. But can you leave this? I think it would be great to leave this. I think this—

SW: No, no. I—

PH: The fins.

SW: —would stay. Because then to polish it, I wouldn’t have to cut it at all. It would chemically get polished. It would be—a dull polish [inaudible] which is fine.

PH: Well, if you polish it, whether you’d have to mask these or what, I don’t know, but could you polish it and leave those rough like that? I think they’re beautiful.

SW: Yeah. We’ll have to see.

PH: I mean, they really give it a—it’s like old marble.

SW: Flashing. That’s why we soak them so long, also; that helps it along.

PH: I like that.

SW: See I use those on the inter—I’ve had pieces where I loved the—those will always—you’d have some—

PH: And these lines, too.

SW: Mm-hmm. You’d have some collector come along and say, ‘Oh, that’s broken, isn’t it?’

[tape stops restarts again mid-sentence]

[machinery continues in background, sometimes loudly]

PH: —but even having purposeful fins, I mean—

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: —making sure that they were even more prominent than they are there.

SW: Yeah, and this piece was all about exactly that [inaudible]. I mean, really—

PH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SW: —all the way through.

PH: And on the outside where you can see it, takes away from the severity; it mitigates the severity of the shape of it a bit.

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: I mean, it would make it quite interesting I think, the contrast of that with this rigidity.

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: This reminds me of a picture in a book I just bought. They used to do little Roman figures, sometimes life-size, sometimes much smaller, sometimes in marble, sometimes terracotta, and they would be sitting in little temples.

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: Sort of portrait figures of a lady and her daughter sitting there. And there’d be a little temple with the back open, just a roof over, and just the sides. Very plain, very severe, and then the people sitting in there. It gives me that Greek feeling of that little temple. How is it up the other way? With the top solid and the bottom open. Bottom open on a—I think that’s even more interesting. Black [inaudible] out or something.

SW: Mm-hmm.

PH: Give a little oomph in there, a little darkness in there, gradation.

SW: That keeps it—the two pieces—

PH: Yeah. Yeah.

SW: You take those two pieces and cap ’em off. These were a part of it. They’d work with—if you remember the piece, this would make it a square again.

PH: Yeah.

SW: These were the ends of it.

PH: Okay.

SW: And they were cut off.

PH: Put those together. Put those—

SW: And you have another—

PH: Fascinating.

[pause for six seconds. Sound of machinery running in the background]

SW: I love [inaudible] the saw.

PH: Even like that, too. Even fused a little bit off center.

SW: I love this stuff like this, just—

PH: Yes, I do too. [inaudible] paperweight.

SW: What would you—

PH: From a modern desk. Christ what a paperweight that would make, huh?

SW: So I’m gonna polish this—and [inaudible] some of them—how’d you know better I [inaudible] say that word?

PH: [laughs] Saw more through, or—?

SW: No—

PH: Polish one down a bit?

SW: It sure seems like it’s having a hell of a time getting through. There it goes again. It’s speeding up. I’m gonna finish this off and like, give—for you to have it, as a paperweight.

PH: Oh, that would be terrific.

SW: See, I’ll show you what [inaudible]—[pause for eight seconds. Sound of machinery running in the background] Get a little bit out here [inaudible]

PH: Yeah. Yeah. Be great. You’re gonna leave the serifs aren’t you?

SW: Yeah.

PH: Looks like a capital E. [pause for four seconds. Machinery still running] Are you gonna take that off?

SW: Yeah.

PH: That rough—

SW: Yeah. That’ll be—

PH: —edge.

SW: That’ll be taken down.

PH: Oh, that’ll look great. Oh, that’ll be terrific.

[tape stops and then restarts again]

PH: —[inaudible] your computer thing while you’re on there.

SW: Okay. I don’t want [inaudible]

[tape stops and restarts]

SW: The digital—it’s a digital, programmable controller. And what it does, it brings the oven to temperature. I can put a different program into it for every different type of glass I have. Can control five kilns at a time, brings them up, brings them down, literally we just have to turn on the kilns now. Well, before I’d have to be here every six to eight hours to readjust.

PH: And you know the funny thing about it is it’s all contained in a plastic block that’s identical with your bricks.

SW: It’s really an eight-by-eight-inch block, isn’t it? Geez.

PH: [Laughs] Or eight by nine.

SW: Okay—this one’s 570 degrees. It’s been firing 103 hours and eight minutes.

PH: Yeah.

SW: This one’s only been on 25 hours and 24 minutes, and it still has the annealing temperature, 895. It’s already gone up. This one’s gone up to 1650 degrees.

PH: Why does it go up? To receive the stuff? I mean, you have to preheat it—

SW: To melt the glass.

PH: Oh, to melt the glass.

SW: [inaudible. PH and SW speaking simultaneously] Oh, it’s working in there. That’s right. It’s not annealing; it’s working and annealing.

SW: Yeah. This is everything. It’s a one-shot deal.

PH: It makes the piece for you and anneals it at the same time. Or in sequence. How about that, as Paul Stankard would say. How about that? I like those little colored beads.

SW: Aren’t they nice?

PH: Yeah.

[recording ends]