Mary Shaffer recalls Dale Chihuly inviting her to critique glass artists’ works at RISD. Oral history interview with Mary Shaffer by Catherine Whalen and Barb Elam, conducted via telephone, March 21, 2019, Bard Graduate Center. Clip length: 01:24.

Mary Shaffer: So I studied, as I said, painting and illustration and graduated in 1965. And my former husband and I went and we ran the European honors program in Rome, and when we came back—we met Chihuly there, and we became friends then. So when we came back to the States, I was already exhibiting. Kynaston McShine, he curated my paintings into an exhibition that was in Providence, and I was showing at the Tyler School of Art [Temple University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania]. So I was already showing my paintings. So Dale admired that—that I was already a so-called ‘known artist,’ and he would invite me in to critique the students’ work in the glass department. So it was Howard Ben Tré, who was making these little tiny pieces, and I said, ‘Look, Howard, these pieces look like ashtrays. You have to make ‘em bigger.’ And he did, you know. And then Therman (“Tree”), Bruce Chao. Bruce Chao, I got a show at OK Harris [OK Harris Gallery, New York, New York, now closed]. His work was fabulous. And then he ended up running the Rhode Island School of Design glass program for many years. But anyhow, so, yeah, those people and also—God, just name some names and I’ve critiqued their work.