Mary Shaffer discusses sexism in early study glass. Oral history interview with Mary Shaffer by Catherine Whalen and Barb Elam, conducted via telephone, March 21, 2019, Bard Graduate Center. Clip length: 02:00.

Mary Shaffer: I wanted to say the macho aspect. For instance, Life magazine came and wanted to take pictures of different glass people and what they were doing. It was pretty cool. I think there were five of us. I was the only woman and I told them, I said, ‘Well, go out and see Dale Chihuly at Pilchuck, but be sure you get a picture of Billy [William] Morris with his shirt off’—[laughs] and that’s exactly what they did because, you know, God, I mean, he was just a hunk of a man. You know, he looked great. And so anyhow, they did that and Billy Morris was that. So there was a lot of macho stuff. I didn’t have to experience it because first of all, I was not in the market as a married woman with children—and I didn’t have to blow with a team or anything like that. So I was independent in my studio working with my own kilns. And so I didn’t experience that, but other women, I’m sure did. You know—and I think that the trouble is, I think there’s still, as you all probably know, there’s sexism and there’s ageism—and I definitely am experiencing ageism now, and sexism. There are shows that I’ve been in for 20 years and they’ll include the guys but they won’t include the older women. It’s really annoying. But anyhow, I think it was probably very hard, and then some really strong women started appearing that could lift as much as men, and they—they did really well. Unfortunately, some of them haven’t had the staying power that I would have expected of them, and some of them have gone off and made other kinds of work or have just been on the side.